Building Our Future

[Romulus]

Along those lines I understand and generally agree, but it would make more sense then to not use ensigns and lieutenants for the entry level ranks. It confounds both the in-game lore as well as even OOC logic. A corporation would not hire veterans and then effectively reset their ranks by using the exact same ranks...so perhaps, much like public safety:

Pilot
Flight Leader (Lieutenant)
Lt. Commander
Commander
Captain

along those lines if it was naval oriented.

As both a RL Marine and a RP Marine, I could deal with that rank structure as plausible since I'd still have my rank and status as a Marine separate, and I'd see these as corporate titles for a private security force.

I think its just the lieutenant/ensign ranks that are the hardest to swallow. It seems too - rookie-ish for the actual nature of what we'd be doing. Just like in a real corporation or civil service post, you'd be hiring experienced people into experienced positions. So they'd be making a lateral move and get a posting accordingly. Since we're extrapolating on that and trying to come up with a system to designate time/contribute to the outfit, it makes sense to have some rank structure, but it should allow for some level of dignity since everyone will ultimately start "low".

Also I think we should separate billets from ranks. In my estimation ranks should be a 6 month per rank + merit type of thing, so it will take a few years to climb. But billets are functions of team management which enables us not to have to promote people just to give them a job or vice versa. Billets are your job in security, your rank is recognition of service in your job and to the corporation. Plus billets will change often I think, since teams will need to be dynamic and not static.

[Magnet]

Well that depends! First of all not all the people will play the Squadron 42! We are comparing apples and pears right now. We are no military organization or mercenaries but a corporation with a military division. It is nice that some have experience as a former UEE military member but it is no must have entering the Citadel Space Corp.

On the other nobody said that people with experience might not be assigned to a higher rank as they gain membership to the corporation!? That is why I wouldn't solely take the term of service as only option to progress in rank! I just think of somebody not being active quite some time and coming back after 1 year and having been promoted twice for that

So I guess it is something in between...there will be members with lesser experience starting as Ensign and sometimes we have get successful new members with quite a reputation who we might assign to the rank of a Captain as he fills a gap in our chain of command!? But normally you have to work your way up in a company if you are the newbie!?

I like the idea even it is not the reality and neither fitting to the OOC logic or in-game lore. We want to create something special, something unique and progress in the ranking and achieving new company perks sounds good for me. I would always want to start with a challenge than being assigned to Fleet Commander....with 20 other guys who also have a lot of experience

[Tealstone]

[Inquisition]

I can only speak for myself here but I have never heard the term Billet before, so I have no idea what it means. Because of that, I refrain from commenting on it.

In my opinion, established military ranks ( from lowest to highest ) are the best way to go. I know starting from a recruit that I am at the lowest pecking order so to speak. It reflects that I am a new member. If I was to sign up and start as a Lieutenant then that gives people the wrong impression of my stature in the Corporation.

[Darhoth]

I will defer to other folks on the military side, I would generally add that I think we should keep the total structure a little simple to start,then expand as we go. I agree with the idea of people having job roles in addition to rank (i.e. someone can be a Lieutenant in rank, but handle marketing as well). On the commercial side, we would have to see how the game works out, but I proposed the idea before of having it organized like a corporation by lines of business (i.e. black market goods, military logistics, commodities, luxury goods etc.), with a head of each business department reporting to the head of the division. Hard to say exactly what it would look like until the game is further fleshed out, but you get the idea.

darhoth

[Cantide]

Hello everyone. This is my opinion about ranks.

Ranks should be based on organization structure - if you want them meant something. For example if you start giving ranks, which are based on individuals "age" time - everyone eventually will get same ranks, and rank start being meaningless.
Rank should define your responsibility (sometime rights).

I personally does not care about how rank sound, but what they do - what responsibility you will get on each rank. Only exception i can remember - "recruit/trial" rank, in every game it serve dual purpose - give new members sense of accomplishment (when they become full members) and prevent spending too much resources on unproven members.

Currently squadron split into 2 big groups: Industrial based and Military based (Adam and Eves + Hell's Angels). Ideally amount of ranks should be based on desired squadron capacity.
Since currently squadron planned to be international i would suggest something to this:


Why would i draw something like this? Let me explain.

Since squadron is international - i would expect to see many different time zones - some of players will see each other on daily basis, some players will meet on rare occurrence (because timezone of two players does not cross that much).
My suggestion is to split pilots in those zones. That does not mean - you are pinned to a specific squad or anything, that mean squadron should have senior members which covering organization 24 hours. In my diagram i called them Officers and Managers. I choose different naming intentionally.

If i am well respected industrial player, that does not mean i am ace military pilot and vice versa (as long as game have any complexity and depth to it). I would expect to see dual ranks in this organization. And again - rank not just a shiny star to get, but job to do - if you are "Officer" - you expected to managing your wing assets, not just play by yourself.

What kind of work-flow i expect from this scheme:
1. Some person which need military or industrial work to be done contact Officer/Manager member.
2. After talking to a rest of the wing Officer/Manager can accept or refuse work.

The same can go for a cross wing communication - but usually that kind of discipline hard to enforce - and everyone talking to everyone. As long as squadron not over populated in some timezones that should not be a huge problem.

Periodically speaking with senior members CEO can monitor squadron population over 24 hours (if senior member report how much squadron member he saw online during his gameplay hours). Example (senior members and timeline):

This way CEO can see which time zones covered by a senior members and can be sure his policies/orders effective 24hrs. Also using that information squadron can create specific requirements threads (for specific wing/for specific timezone, etc).

This is just my thoughts.
Key ideas:
1. Rank should be based on organization structure
2. Rank should represent responsibility, not gaming skills, or age of your character.
3. This is draft and should be tweaked, for example i expect to see more detailed hierarchy on military wing (i expect to see groups which are constantly dogfighting together).
4. Have recruit/trial stage - that gives some members that imaginary first rank to go for (yay! i am finally a fully fledged member); also this rank serve as flag - "careful this member is relatively knew - don't trust him too much"

[Magnet]

@Cantide
There are some interesting thoughts and ideas in your post concerning the structure.

Pros
I like the idea concerning putting wingmen together who are in a similiar timezone but still give them the change to switch teams according to the need (US timezone one pilot down / ill / on holiday and fill the place with one from the EU-zone).

Cons
I wouldn't just base ranks on the organization structure. It should be a mix (as already posted by different members) of serving time, achievements and abilities / interests. Not everybody wants to become a captain for example with an additional responsibility to...let's say....be also in charge of recruiting new pilots for the Hell's Angels or organize the weapon supply for the squadron. Some are just happen to be promoted to Lieutentant one day and serve as experienced fighter escort pilots with their fellow wingmen.

On the other hand the structure will also have to apdapt to the development of the Citadel Space Corp. depending on its success, the number of military and mercantile personal and so on. And still we need some sort of starting point and I think concerning the ranking of the military division we were clear...just not which responsibilites a Captain, Commander and so on should have...

But we also agreed so far that the structure of the military division should have comparable aspect to the mercantile structure even if there are fewer ranks and other perks to them. But you should know that the Fleet Admiral has a counterpart in the mercantile division with the rank of a director for example.