Health of the game (SC)

[Wave]

I've got some info on the "sources" for the escapist article. apparently they are all one-star reviews from a website called "glassdoor", all posted in the last week. Also, it seems Glassdoor in no way requires you to verify that you actually worked at the place you are reviewing, which damages the credibility of the source's authenticity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/co ... /?sort=top

[Calignos]

Was just about to comment on that. I really HOPE the author didn't take anonymous, could-be-anyone, reviews from a website and use them as "sources," but I wouldn't put it past anyone looking for a clickbait article.

[EchoSeven]

Doesn't look that way.

[EchoSeven]

Escapist Also published a position on SC.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... -and-Respo

The Escapist's Position on Our Star Citizen Story
JOHN KEEFER | 3 OCTOBER 2015 4:00 AM
Video Games - RSS 2.08
Star Citizen Employees Respond
Because our story on Star Citizen yesterday caused quite a bit of controversy and raised questions from the community, we will add more details on our sources without revealing them.

After our original story on Star Citizen by Lizzy Finnegan, she was contacted by seven ex-employees and two current employees about their experiences at Cloud Imperium Games. She exchanged emails with all of them, but then spoke with all of them via phone and Skype. Six gave their real names, while the seventh did not use his real name, but did show pay stubs and a Cloud Imperium Games ID with the name blacked out.

Two others who identified themselves as current employees contacted the writer via Lockbin, but we could not verify their identities so did not quote them. Their responses reiterated claims by the other seven, however. Lockbin disposes of messages after 24 hours, another reason the comments were not used.

Of the seven former employees used for the story, more than half said they quit CIG of their own accord.

Here are the exact details of our interactions with our sources:

Using the source designations from our story, three sources (CS1, CS4, CS5) initially contacted Lizzy via separate phone calls on Sept. 26 with information they wanted to share after seeing the initial story about CIG on The Escapist. They got her number via a mutual contact. No emails were exchanged. The sources and writer agreed to chat in-depth at a later time.
Four other sources (CS2, CS3, CS6, CS7) initially contacted Lizzy via email on or before Sept. 27 The emails, numbering 32 from these four individuals, were forwarded to our EiC and Publisher, who passed that info by our legal department. It was cleared and we pursued individual personal contacts beginning the following day.
The two emails (CS8-CS9) from current employees came into Lockbin on Sept. 27. in the early morning. Lizzy exchanged at least 5-6 emails each with these sources, but they did not disclose their identity.
When it came time for followup, three sources (CS1, CS4, CS5) were contacted via phone by Lizzy on Sept. 26. One call started at 5 p.m. and lasted for an hour and 15 minutes. A second was at 6:45 p.m. and lasted for 45 minutes. The final call was at 9 p.m. for an hour an 8 minutes. All three were contacted via Skype as well to verify visual identity.
Three more sources (CS2, CS6, CS7) were contacted on Sept. 27. One call started at 9 a.m. for 30 minutes and was Skype only. This was the caller who did not give his name, but verified employment with ID and pay stubs. Call #2 was at 2 p.m. for an hour and 52 minutes, while call number 3 was at 5 p.m. for an hour and one minute. Again, all callers were visually verified after the phone call via Skype.
The last call (CS3) was on Sept. 28 at 7 p.m. for 50 minutes, again visually verified on Skype.
All sources via Skype had their pictures compared to their LinkedIn profiles or other images of them on the web to verify identities.
Chris Roberts' response to me was at 9:10 a.m. almost three hours before publication time. Unfortunately, the response ended up in my spam folder, as it came in unformated and the pictures did not load. Since Roberts did not copy Lizzy or the Editor-in-Chief, who were on my original email to CIG PR head David Swofford, they did not get them and there was no back up to ensure someone saw it. Swofford emailed me at 12:40 - after I had sent him a link to the story - asking if I had received Roberts' response. It was then that I checked my spam folder, found the response and forwarded it to Lizzy to integrate into our story, minus any personal attacks on the sources. I called Swofford at 1:02 p.m. to personally apologize for the oversight and let him know how we would be using the response in the story. Roberts' entire response on the official site showed up roughly 10-15 minutes before we updated our story on the site.
To be clear on further allegations: None of our sources were Derek Smart and we did not get our information from Glassdoor. However, we do know that a couple sources did post on Glassdoor after talking to Lizzy.

We know the pitfalls of using anonymous sources. A major tenet of journalism to to verify your sources and get them on the record. Unfortunately, because of job security, threats, or whistleblower ramifications, providing the identity of a source is not always possible. According to the Society of Professional Journalists Code of Ethics, it is our job to seek the truth, but also minimize harm. Video evidence was sent by a source, but was not used because we felt it was ambiguous and could not be properly verified. If and when we get verifiable documentation to support the allegations, that will be published.

Ideally, if you can get two people on the record saying the same thing, or at least three anonymous people saying the same thing, then the information is good to run. We got our information from nine independent sources talking about the working conditions at Cloud Imperium and their take on the status of Star Citizen, and all were properly vetted. We also gave CIG 24 hours to reply to the various topics addressed, longer than usual since we knew Roberts was currently in the U.K. When we integrated Roberts' comments, we made sure he addressed the specific points raised, as well as gave him the final word in the article.

If factual errors exist in our report, we will happily retract and correct. But as it stands, the report presented two sides, the allegations and observations of former and current employees and the response to them from Chris Roberts for CIG. We understand that former employees may have an axe to grind, hence the need to get several of them to say the same thing. We also understand that there will be people who are happy with CIG and enjoy their employment. Our job was to present both sides and let you, the reader, make your own determination.

We do plan on taking Chris Roberts up on his offer to tour the various CIG studios and talk to current employees about the development of Star Citizen. We will be setting that up soon.

- John Keefer
Managing Editor
The Escapist

[Wave]

From the reddit post mentioned above:

Update 13: Some users believe only anon CS1 is tied to the Glassdoor reviews. No, I believe anon CS3 and CS5 are also directly contaminated by the Glassdoor reviews. A reddit user was kind enough to highlight the offensive parts and share them with me: http://imgur.com/cGTiEFj

Frankly, the fact that the sources aren't named, even with laws in place to protect whistleblowers, the quotes cited simply as "several sources", and Derek Smart's support via twitter make this all look dubious at best.

Meanwhile, I see progress being made on the game, however slowly, and I'm happy with my investment. frankly, it's paid off better so far than Starbound, or any other early access games that have been in development as long as SC has been.

As far as I'm concerned, if something isn't productive, it's best left ignored. If you don't trust the company enough to keep investing; don't. The thing driving this game's development is the community. Which is why stuff like this is being published. It poisons the community and plants doubt that turns into a self fulfilling prophecy. You can't have the mindset that something is impossible if you want to get it done. You have to will it to succeed and support those working to see it done. That support doesn't have to be monetary if you don't want it to be. It can be as little as sending an Email thanking the staff for their hard work.

All of the allegations are unsubstantiated, unproven, and slanderous. And at the end of the day, I don't give a shit if they're assholes, which I have seen no evidence of; All I care about is that the game gets made. The fact that it's currently being held up by Quality Assurance is fine by me, because I'm tired of buggy, shit games.

I bought Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag last month. I enjoyed going around on my ship blowing the shit out of people. I DIDN'T enjoy the poor controls, glitchy gameplay (including teleporting enemies, missing collision boxes, and one time my ship spawned underwater, leaving a hole in the ocean above), and the fact that the ending didn't feel like an end at all because of generally poor pacing of the story. I WISH that game had been held back a few months to have the bugs worked out of it, and I don't buy $60 titles anymore because this kind of shit is just expected these days.

I never played Freelancer, or Wing Commander, I'd heard of the movie, saw a review, thought it sucked. I don't back this project because of any blind faith in CR. All I know is that I can't trust anyone else putting out AAA titles, so why not back the people's choice.

[EchoSeven]

>All of the allegations are unsubstantiated, unproven, and slanderous. And at the end of the day, I don't give a sh** if they're assholes, which I have seen no evidence of; All I care about is that the game gets made.

I see a bit of accountability and criticism a tool for maybe CIG to sharpen up and focus development, and its best not to be defensive or naive about what can and does happen in workplaces. I think the allegations are substantiated, at least to the extent that they happened to those nine people. I've worked for horror places before and I have seen how it can work. Sycophancy, people being scared to speak plainly for fear of "upsetting the apple cart", being herded to an official opinion and management overstepping their bounds. It's easy to say if you don't like it, don't work there, but that's a bit callous considering changes uproot peoples lives, jobs are not always exactly what they are advertised as and there are significant consequences to whistleblowers.

Proven? Well, we'd need a court and have those spoken, people will make of the evidence what they will. Slanderous, well it is certainly damaging, but the real question is whether it is true, which determines if its slander and I think nine people make a case that that certainly happened to those individuals.

Where does that leave us both Wave? Well, we disagree, but it really doesn't matter, we are friends and that won't ever change because of a difference of opinion! We both want the game badly, I am immensely looking forward to a good one. Like you I'm happy with my current investment level (though I am selling off my Cat). ;( And your also right about staff - I really, really appreciate the staff there (well, except for a few that are sub-par), they work extremely hard, I want to see them, their professionalism and knowledge valued and them respected so that the best ideas, not hierarchy win out. I've given them heaps of support and appreciation, including sending flowers to CIG CS. (Back in the day with Chelsea.. Ah, nice days...)

[jive]

I don't find it hard to believe that one to nine people had bad experiences working at CIG. I bet it's hard and crazy there. Also, I have held this position for literally ever - I HATE Sandi. She just gives me bad vibes, since the first time I heard her talk about the game. It's really hard for me to not jump on board the Sandi's evil train. It's been sitting in station forever.

As for the money thing, I really don't know how much money CIG has spent, but I bet it's a fuckton. Will they be able to finish the game? It's hard to say.

I know we all hope so.

[EchoSeven]

LOL. My wife can't stand Sandi. Says that she wants to be the queen bee, and she doesn't even know a thing about the game, really..

She did a good job training customer service, but I see the issue with her that :

1. Chris and Sandi hid that they were married. They should not have. It makes an issue out of something that doesn't need to be.
2. Sandi should have been removed from operations early or immediately. Having your wife there can affect Chris's judgement despite any efforts to remain objective - it just does and pollutes the chain of command
3. She went/goes above her authority as PR, she seems to do everything and clear jurisdictions is necessary in business. You don't want people taking shortcuts through the chain of command.

I just want a good game, but as with all businesses, there are internal politics galore that sometimes introduce pain for all involved, and it is a very young company.

Edit : Escapist Podcast Summary
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... ng-Podcast

- FTC hit card game, due to failing to deliver on promises in campaign, involved in class action and FTC sided with consumers, determined that they had obligations, did not fulfill promises and had to compensate.
- Gravely concerning that failed projects cause collateral damage on other projects that they become worse that preordering.
- SC looks like it could be a catastrophic failure with 1 million backers
- Lizzy featured, stated backers have tends of thousands "invested".
- Looks and sounds awesome but that is all it will be.
- 90 million raised to to continuing crowdfunding post kickstarter
- DS posted blog posts (long ones) DS predicted firings because Austin office closing, and people leaving drew attention of Lizzy to possible legitimacy of DS posts leading to her starting an investigation.
- What struck lizzy was the changes to the terms of service which entirely changed structure of refund, release date
- Went from 18 months to delivery, yet it was Nov. 2014, and in 12 months from that you are entitled to a refund. The anticipated release date changed to 2016 and 18 months of that, so cut out people of refunds for next month which they should have been entitled to a refund.
- Original delivery date Nov. 2014, Feb terms of service new refund date MAY 2018.
- Major concern s- if you miss games delivery date by more than a few weeks esp. if you don't tell, anyone who wanted game and doesn't want it any more should have a refund due to a failure to meet an agreement.
- Liz checked for release date on website and IT WAS GONE or buried very hard to find, nothing was coming out.
- Inclusion of completion date mentioned in terms of service was up on Friday when the story went up last week and is now gone/buried. Seems deliberately obscured and dodgy marketing at best. (11:45 in).
- Wikipedia 2017 release date. Different websites have different dates.
- Images of original release date is Spring 2015 release of FPS, Fall 2015 SQ42 1st episode, Commercial launch 2016. And THAT is not kickstarter, but due to feature creep.
- Firings Concerning. Was 11,000,000 stretchgoal if the office is shut. People pledged for that office, what is going on with that?
- Some people are under definite impressions it is closing. Worth watching.
- Some people hate DS, smarmy bastard confirmed. But just being an asshole means facts can still be correct. DS personal attacks do not change the facts. Just because he pointed at the facts does not make it wrong. You don't need to like someone to recognize the truthfulness of the statement/s (15:00).
- (Lizzy) careful with sources and ensures that she worked around him. Any info she provided linked to document had second source that was corroborating it. Even with that, article was detached. It was amazing to see people being even unwilling to look at link because DS was linked to this.
- Suggests some people don't want to believe it as people had sinked $1000 in it. As of now, Liz has additional comments from sources all corroborating and bunch of new information (17:20).
- Still money pouring in feeding into this. Latest ship could be seen as DLC for $900. Community Manager there struggles with understanding the "excess selling off the inventory" of LTI ship that did not sell originally.
- As sources were anonymous, credibility is discussed. 1 anon. is interesting, but generally dismissed as crackpot. 2 Anon telling the same thing compelling as a matter of interest. Liz has 9 sources. 6 not anon. to Liz., 3 unknown to liz other than confirmed relationship to project. Liz confirmed true almost certainly happening. 9 could be considered lawsuit material.
- Could they be communicating amongst themselves. Name had been spread to get in touch with her, unsure what contact before then, none were speaking specifically to each other, though one had passed her name on.
- The idea that they had gotten together, concocted the story and then come to her with falsehoods is not at any point something that was conceived as reasonable, probable or possible. The impression Liz had is that they felt quite guilty about their role there. People from different offices involved.
- Liz got a lot of specific, independent stories personal to each one. There was a LOT of information that was intimate and personal that was even more concerning that what she had shared.
- Barebones essential on what everyone should know is:

1. Allegations of mismanaging money (top) (CR/Gardiner paid for with company money, cars/leases and vacations with company money. Platform developed with Turbulent to make money with crowdfunded money being injected.
2. Reports of how employees are being treated

Irresponsible spending of money also mentioned. Hollywood A class actors for commercials for instance and 4 months of shooting with FULL A class actors again, unnecessary and something sources were concerned with.

- Point 1 (money mismanagement) is the public interest element of this story and the most concerning from her perspective. Embezzlement.
- Sources reporting COMPLETING entire sections of the game and CR would say "Why don't we try something different?" Utter disregard for advice of people who have been in the industry for 12 years non stop. They would tell him "No, this is not going to work, that is not possible, don't do this" but he would spend six months doing something just to prove that it is possible. It wasn't, then they would have to go back and redo it (26:18).
- Issue does not really need opinions, if this is proven, if CR and wife leased items with crowdfunding money there is no other word for embezzlement and a crime in the US. Unless CR has political connections, SC could set a good precedent for holding people accountable.
- What crowdfunding needs is an example, and CR could be it.
- Escapist views the Austin studio shudown as money problems.
- Gradual layoffs seems to be the technique ("eliminating unnecessary positions"). Terms being used are significant layoffs. 10 people = a department, not restructuring. PR is excellent from CIG and utter lack of people looking closely at the situation.
- A lot of jobs listed at the jobs all pulled (available 2 weeks ago, not now). People paid for that office to ramp up production.
- 2012 kickstarter said that higher cost of stretch-goals is to ensure that they would still make the game by 2014.
- Prior to KS, there was development occurring.
- CR was out of industry not sure what he could do with money and technology / CR may have thrown a figure out there without knowing what would be required or how to spend it.
- General commentary of CIG startup at kickstarter
- Studios take time to gear up, people can't work together immediately and affect production, assumption naive.
- Mistakes were made, circumstantially CR's movie studio was sued by Kevin Costner for millions - promised movie going ahead, then not. Breach of contract.
- CR compared to Tim Schafer who ends in in position where something takes forever to take.
- Liz - You can't sell me a car, then decide to make it a flying car and then not give to me because it's now a flying car.
- Many C issues raised fall under FOI act as matters are in the public interest.
- Internal environment bad - Liz - Personal insults very publicly, HR complaints and reports useless and HR was reporting to people that were doing it. Needs to be external HR department perhaps.
- Insults included questioning manhood, sexuality, race, competency all in a public setting. Some people became physically ill while working there due to the stress of it all.
- Discriminatory hiring practices also mentioned.
- Toxic work environment is toxic to project. Spending time worrying about how to word an email to your boss telling him that his ideas are stupid and not able to be implemented, that is hours of work time that could have been spent working on something feasible.
- The idea that employees were fearful of telling boss what they thought about the basic plans / If you can't say "I, the person doing this work think that this is unfeasible" and then have stress and fear that you will be targeted in a public email for questioning, it steps beyond management issue and goes into mental health and bullying territory.
- Commentary - CR/TS have previously been in charge, but never in charge of companies. Taking someone who has always had a publisher go free, and remove the control and this can happen.
- Hiring practices - Multiple people reported this and had been taken to HR. Sandi when advising people on hiring was to check education if too long ago not to call for an interview as they are over 40, protected and harder to fire.
- Incident where someone came in and not hiring her, she's a black girl. Other ones such as she has a hairy "you know" Liz struggled to include as it was so offensive.
- Read stories in links below.
- One area where people were uncertain is whether it is coming out, just that it may not come out with this company.

[Wave]

All I'm saying is that the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Yes, it's feasible that nine people had a bad experience. but when something this defaming comes from unnamed sources, with no evidence presented, and supported by a guy that most people agree is a competitor looking to make the project fail; I just don't see the source as reliable.

As for the accusations of embezzlement; CR did work before CIG. He's hardly an industry unknown, and it's feasible to me that he isn't living beyond his means based on royalties from previous work, (from what I gather he got millions off of selling Digital Anvil to Microsoft), as well as writing his own paycheck for his work on SC. If that sounds shady to you, my dad does the same thing for his HVAC business. It happens when you run your own business. None of his employees are working for free, so why should he? As for vacations, we've been tracking his movements since this game started, and I haven't noticed any 'vacations'.

And no, Echo, I'm not trying to be unfriendly or hostile. If all my friends agreed with me I'd have no one interesting to talk to. All I'm saying is I don't trust Escapist, and I won't take the article seriously unless I see the former employees making a public statement, or any internal claims made that coincide with the accusations made.

As for Sandi, she doesn't bother me. I watched an Interview where she sat down with a community member over skype unscripted, and talked about meeting CR back in 2003 and getting the game started. She seemed very open and genuine, and that was just taking time to talk to a fan for youtube.

[zramn]

1.Marriage is a personal matter.
2.Opinion.
3.No proof outside anonymous statement. An email from her stating to do something would suffice.
-Card game is physical, Computer game is not.
-And no AAA preorder has failed (AC:Unity)
-Yes it would, if it fails, but looking at how much behind the scenes is done already, it looks like it won't.
-Okay. Backers also have money to "invest" that much.
-Really now? Where's that crystal ball of yours?
-I thought that was called crowd funding. Huh, just kickstarter I guess.
-Ah, investigative journalism by means of rampant defamatory attacks by a rival developer.
-Scope changes when funding goes from planned 2mil max to 90mil and rising.
-Ask for a refund. Go ahead.
-Major Concerns should ask for a refund, if denied then ask for support.
-Release date was moved because of the statement that this will be released when it is finished.
-Funny how attacks on a company bring about defense.
-Wow, I thought Chris Roberts decided the release date, not Wikipedia, but I guess I'm wrong.
-I'm fine with that, but I'd be okay with later if it means it's not buggy and rushed.
-Office was purchased, stretch goal accomplished.
-Alright I've got my popcorn.
-Yep and does not automatically confirm either. Weird that huh?
-A second anonymous source, more weight, but not held in court.
-I love these. You don't believe because you spent money. Maybe you believe because you haven't. Opinion.
-Not DLC, it's in the game and attainable. Think in app purchases, 100 dollars of virtual goods.
-Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Consider lawsuit then.
-9 people working for the same company talking to each other? Crazy.
-I don't know if they're falsehoods, but their not proven either, nor are they weighted for effect on the game.
-Wow, almost like a story could have been written on it.
-1.They. Have. Money. Already.
-2.Reports on how this could be false.
-Commercials part of stretch goals. You want them to not provide quality content?
-Buzzword. Embezzlement vs writing your check.
-Sources reporting COMPLETION of my caring about cut poor quality content.
-then don't use opinion for your issues.
-I thought we were through of making examples of people in front of crowds. Ah well. I'll get the noose.
-Escapist also made the report we are questioning. Funny that.
-I stacked sunglasses for a closing of a store, then they let me go. I should have been kept for all the sunglasses that weren't there.
-A lot of applications might be the reason.
-it was also a lot smaller scope for the game.
-Working before IPO? Unheard of.
-Wow you have a mind reader too?
-General comment on comments.
-Agreement with assumption. Guess I'm naive.
-I took a candy bar from a store without paying when I was a child. I should be in a watch list too.
-CR compared to Chocolate Rain, same initials.
-I can tell you the brakes still don't work, but if you really want it...
-I'm interested in how this is such a big topic.
-Evidence needed.
-^
-^
-Agreed. If only we had evidence of this.
-If you can't do something, you definitely should talk to your boss...
-"This" is likely not happening.
-Wow so if I choose someone based on experience it's illegal.
-e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e

I'm done talking and reading on this, but if you are willing to debate on my post I'll respond.


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